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Realm Argument.

Started by notafraid, December 10, 2009, 05:02:36 pm

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notafraid

While debating the existence of God with a theist for some time now and having become mired down in the same ontological, teleological and cosmological arguments, I developed a new argument against the existence of God, at least I am unaware of one like it:

God exists beyond our realm.

We cannot know of the existence of anything beyond our own realm.

Therefore we know God does not exist.

To support the first premise it is critical that I clarify "our realm" (OR) and why God exists there. OR is that of the natural universe and the laws that govern it and God is a supernatural being, and not just because religion states this but because God would have to be in order to accomplish what he supposedly has done, can do and will do. The supernatural is exactly that, a realm beyond ours where the natural laws of the universe do not govern.
Any realm that could possibly exist that is governed by different laws would not make it possible for us to exist in it, therefore even if something could possibly exist beyond OR and if it could attempt to interact, manipulate, intervene or effect anything in OR we would be totally oblivious. Either by our laws confining the effect to a zero or by completely unraveling our laws and universe the moment of such an effect, no matter how small. Even thoughts, and this is the important part, of anything beyond OR are impossible for us because not only do our thoughts originate from OR but their existence depends on it and because any realm beyond OR would contain actions based on different laws that would make it impossible to conceive thoughts of that realm. Our thoughts are the result of complex functions of a complex brain that is unable to produce a truly irrational processes such as matter moving in a direction absolutely opposite to the direction it is moving. The mind is incapable of producing a clear thought based on incorrect data input.

The Professor

I agree with your two premises, but I do not understand how it follows from these that doG does not exist.

I'm not saying that your logic is flawed, only that at the present time I do not follow it.

Obviously the conclusion you reach is correct because doG is no more real than Superman or any other imaginary super pal.

notafraid

Thank you for agreeing with my premises, please let me help with the conclusion;
The natural laws of the universe, our realm, would have to be broken in order for us to know anything of God's existence and it is these same laws that deny us that ability.

We are prevented from knowing his existence.

We can NOT know he exists.

The Professor

Quote from: notafraid on December 11, 2009, 11:34:37 am

We can NOT know he exists.


Because it does not exist in any realm except human imagination.

cristine27

September 07, 2010, 07:57:56 pm #4 Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 04:14:40 am by cristine27
I read an article entitled "Does God Exist?" It is really hard to have an argument about it, right? But if you really believe in Him, you don't have to doubt if God does exist. For me, there is no use in arguing God's existence. I will just try to live by His words and hopefully by doing so I can influence other people.